Yeah, the 18 hour days reference was simply to imply that starting a startup is a full-time, front-of-mind undertaking.

I think it's safe to say that this guy took it a bit out of context.

I think the article is a troll, but I don't think you can fault him for the way he interpreted that sentence. You said you've been working 18 hours a day, and then you implied that the only time you took off was to watch a movie now and then.

I interpreted the statement literally too.

You can check out my response on my blog for the clarification. I suppose it was a bit awkwardly worded at first.

Thank you :)

So, what exactly is the norm? What we hear from blog entries and the like is that you're all working from the time you get up to the time you fall asleep clutching your laptops.

Cults are defined in other ways too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult#Definition_according_to_se...

"A cult is a group or movement exhibiting a great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea or thing and employing unethically manipulative techniques of persuasion and control (e.g. isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgment, promotion of total dependency on the group and fear of [consequences of] leaving it, etc) designed to advance the goals of the group's leaders to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community."

For and exhaustive list, see here: http://rickross.com/sg_alpha.html

This is no laughing matter. People's lives are ruined by cults, and even if taken away from a cult, their effects linger.

"Unethically manipulative"!? WTF is that?

I think that a mother using reverse psychology to motivate her child to do her homework is "ethically manipulative." I think a national leader using lies to lead his country into war is unethically manipulative. I don't yet have a formula for it though.

I don't like that formula, because in both cases the manipulator would think it's for their own good. It's too subjective.

Well, that's why there is no formula! It's a sticky wicket. In the case of the mother and child, in most cases, the mother is correct in thinking it's "for their own good." Also, in that case, there's good reason to believe that the child doesn't know what's best.

So don't try to put any formula in my mouth. I explicitly said I had none!

(It's like porn: "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it.")

Well, I guess I meant that any formula you come up with around that statment suffers from revisionist history, and a very subjective view of what is really good. I was objecting to the formula you hadn't pinned down based on the output.

Most people would say that George W Bush deceived us into invading Iraq. Had he found a few nukes lying around, would that still have been unethical? A lot of people who think his actions were unethical now would probably not if the results were different, even though nothing was known at the time he did it.

If George W. knew that there were nukes lying around Iraq and used deception to motivate the US to go to war to get them, then I'd say that would be better than the current situation, but I'm still not sure it would be ethical. However, it looks like he knew there weren't nukes or any sort of WMDs there.

In the case of the mom, the prospects for long term harm are minimal and the potential for long term benefit are pretty good. In the case of taking a country to war, there's always a whole lot of potential for long term harm.

At least you are honest about your beliefs.

Most people get highly offended if you suggest that their political stances are nothing more than a series of gut reactions.

The evidence indicates that, for most, life is a series of gut reactions that we rationalize later.

Well, the norm is clearly working very hard for two and a half months before demo day. But most people realize that working past a certain number is counterproductive. I don't know exactly what that number is, but it's below 18 per day for sure. I'd say we probably worked 70-80 hour weeks.

Yeah. I'm not a participant, but I'll be applying in the future, and from the descriptions I've heard from people that's really not what the program is all about.

Will you be applying for the next batch?

Come on in and drink the Kool-Aid. Or, more accurately, the Goya.

I'm a college student, so when I apply it will probably be for one of the summer rounds. While I'm fine with abandoning college for a bit to work on something if it picks up steam, I don't want to miss a semester actually beginning the project. Or does that not make sense with YC?

I already feel like a newbie, though. I haven't the faintest idea what Goya is.

It doesn't really make sense with startups in general. You can't tell much after the two months or so before you have to decide on going back to school. You're lucky to just launch something by then, let alone iterate, let usage define your future, seek funding, etc. I'd be more inclined to just finish school and then do it.

And it's fruit juice.

Its extremely delicious tropical fruit juice in flavors like Mango and Peach that has a heavenly mouthfeel and drinks way too fast. "Fruit juice" alludes to like welches or something similar.

Wow. This Y Combinator thing suddenly seems even more tempting.

Ah, gotcha. I don't know. On the one hand, I feel like applying and really seeing where this idea of mine can go. On the other, I'm not certain if it's the best idea, to want to test my concepts out so early. But four years' wait right now seems like pretty awfully long.

Can you take a year off of school?

I feel like a very large number of startup founders that ended up successful probably would not have seen much evidence that that would happen within two or three months.

I can, yeah. I would be completely willing to do that, too.

At the same time, I still wouldn't want to miss my first two semesters. And I don't think there's much of a loss to be had waiting an extra few months.