When an individual man beats his wife because he was raised to think it's right, we hold him personally responsible.

When a large group of men all beat their wives because they were raised to think it's right, we start looking at just why so many men are raised this way, and see this as a larger problem. This is only right.

Same deal with women and negotiating: an individual woman who's a bad negotiator is her problem, a large group of women who are all bad negotiators is a problem with society.

Note that the two ideas are not mutually exclusive. In the cases of large groups with a problem, we can and generally do place blame both on society and on the individuals.

We do also blame society in the first case, don't we? We don't exonerate the man in question, but there is quite a bit of general hand-wringing about whether our society raises boys to be violent, even to the extent that some people propose questionable solutions like banning violent video games.

There are a couple of differences that make your reasoning invalid:

- Women having a lower salary isn't as visible or as visibly wrong as men hitting their wives

- Hitting one's wife is an action, while not negotiating salary (well) is a non-action

Both things are wrong, and we need to try to inhibit both on the society level (by trying to raise responsible men, and women to negotiate salaries).

Though, I'm very certain that I, as a man, also need lessons in negotiating salaries - I'm quite gullible/trusting.

The comparison doesn't matter.

The fact remains: if men do what "society" has "conditioned" them to do, we hold them personally responsible. If women do, we rush to take care of them and save them from themselves.

The moral of the story: women are delicate flowers who cannot decide for themselves, and must be protected.

Negotiating salary and hitting someone are not the same thing. One is a violent act of assault and the other is a conversation to decide your rate of pay. Furthermore, some people do make excuses for men who commit violent acts on the basis of their social situation and upbringing, even though it is flawed to do so.

Also, I have personally seen and continue to see news stories, editorials, and blog posts about social conditions for men, esp. in regards to men taking part in "traditional" female roles, such as child care, certain types of labor, and even certain kinds of hobbies.

It is deliberately misleading to say that social conditioning and social issues treat one gender one way and another gender the other way, not too mention that such a position completely erases and doesn't acknowledge the existence of those who are not cisgendered and have a different experience in regard to their social experience.

You're complaining of a double-standard where men aren't allowed to hurt other people but women are allowed to hurt themselves? You have a strange definition of double-standard.

Oh, because men hitting their wives don't also hurt themselves? Please. The toll of committing violence is high.

"Poor women, we can't let them do what society tells them to do!"

So you're saying the comment should be downvoted if a man wrote it, but not if a woman wrote it?

Though you're writing this comment to defend ahoyhere, it seems to go against her apparent resentment at the 'women are delicate flowers that need protection' view. Should we really view her comments different depending on her gender?

It's very not okay to hit your wife in most parts of the developed world, it's taken very very seriously by police. The threshold of response is significantly lower than other hints of crime vs. violence against women.

Wow.

"Ladies, take control of your own destiny, or be a victim of your own making."

One of the more ignorant things I've read here ever. You clearly don't understand the sociology of the issue at hand here. Do you think that women just wake up and go "Woe is me, I'm going to lay down today and take whatever I get"?

Funnily enough, the "take control" idea is a very similar idea to one Sheryl Sandberg talks about:

"when you blame someone else for keeping you back, you are accepting your powerlessness"

Of course, she's not acting like an ass when she says it.

There's a difference between saying "I don't want to ask for more", and simply not even thinking to do it or being raised in a society where it doesn't even occur to her that she might be able to do so.

That's kinda the important theme behind socially trained behaviors like this.

This is precisely the problem for a lot of people. I know plenty of guys who don't think to do this, and I used to be one of them (presumably because of subconscious beliefs that people 'should' be fair). In the past 16 months I've increased my income by 2.5x AND now receive overtime pay after quitting my original job having been told I was receiving "market-related" rates.