Thank you! You see for a minute there I thought you were in the "everyone should have kids" camp. So really we are not so far apart in opinion because if you wanted to have kids since you were 10 and, not really knowing anything else about you but assuming you are a good, responsible person, I would be the first to say you should have kids.

Having had an experience and not desiring to repeat it has nothing to do with whether or not you were good or bad at it. Plenty of bad parents out there who for some reason keep having kids and will probably tell you it's the most awesome thing and most of the good parents I know take a measured approach to their own procreation. Some have honestly said they probably would not do it again - of course who knows as they can't go back.

FWIW I think every parent does indeed say "never again". Then in a couple of years they forget they ever felt that.

There are a few people that regret being parents. The funny thing is that if you talk to them you'll find that they've become parents because they though it's something the should do, and not something they wanted to do.

Yes, exactly - and where did this idea that they should have kids come from? What I'm saying is that people need a balanced perspective when deciding and all too often it is the "everyone should have kids" voice that is only heard and anyone that states anything to the contrary is summarily dismissed or berated. That is changing, albeit slowly but I will also be the first to say that at the end of the day if decide you want kids then go for it.

I'm not sure where you are hearing the "everyone should have kids" refrain in 2012. Perhaps this is from your parents or friends?

I'd submit too that perhaps a lot of it is self imposed, as witnessed by your comments in this thread that immediately assumed more than one person was of the opinion that we are somehow insinuating you are a lesser person from not having kids.

Outside of your own family, there's not a heck of a lot of pressure to have kids these days. Your family though is - respectfully - your problem. :-)

It actually feels good to me to see you talk about the idea of society pushing you to have kids with such incredulity. You clearly haven't experienced the religious culture that I have, which pushed my wife and I to have children ASAP, and continually preaches that if you don't find parenthood (particularly motherhood) extremely fulfilling then there is something wrong with you. I assure you that this culture is still very alive and well in 2012.

Yes, but you are clearly aware that you are part of a religious subset of society, one that doesn't compare to typical NA culture as it stands overall.

I thought it was self evident what perspective I was coming from, but just in case it isn't, let me clarify that I'm not speaking about strict orthodox Jewish cultures, east Indian patriarchal cultures, or what happens in the Tibetan foothills, but of the mainstream, celebrity worshiping, I want pleasure now North American public.

The culture I grew up in is mainstream enough to produce a serious presidential candidate. I don't think you realize just how entrenched this kind of culture actually is in this country. Favorite past-times? Decrying the hedonistic, worldly, evil, "mainstream, celebrity worshiping, I want pleasure now" society while simultaneously taking great pleasure in it.

Religious subset? I don't know about Canada, but the US is still a majority Christian country (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_the_United_Stat...) and very much has the attitude that sofal was stating. And I would suspect the majority of athesists would have the same view. That said, actions speak louder than words and the fact that fertility rates in most industrialized countries hover just around replacement or lower shows that while people say they want one thing they obviously don't always practice what they preach - they just want everyone else to.

I can confirm that this is the mainstream view any place I've lived in the US as well.

I don't know what it's like in San Francisco.

I'm not talking about me,I'm asking where the people you know that regret having kids got the idea that they should have kids. It's the default stance in most societies - yes even in 2012. I have heard it from a lot of people and strangely enough I hear it on HN every time someone says they don't want kids or think they aren't worth having. Inevitably when someone says that there are those who clamor in and have to say that having kids is the best thing in the world. My question to you is why did you feel such a strong need to respond? You didn't have to respond but you did - why?