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Overreaction much? Should there be a ban on americium-241 in smoke detectors?


The legislation doesn't include americium, and even if it did‚ I presume it will be imported under license.

https://www.legislation.gov.au/C2004A03417/latest/text says "Nuclear material means any source or any special fissionable material as defined in Article XX of the Statute." and Article XX only mentions uranium, plutonium, and thorium.

In any case, high-schooler David Hahn showed us what's possible with a bunch of smoke detectors, camping lantern mantels, and the like. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hahn His lab became a Superfund site.


In this kind of amounts it follows that import of coal should require this kind of license because of thorium content.


I believe that is addressed in the sentence after the one I quoted.

"Nuclear material means any source or any special fissionable material as defined in Article XX of the Statute. The term source material shall not be interpreted as applying to ore or ore residue."


Fine, then TIG welding rods (some of which intentionally contain thorium).


Nitpick: TIG welding electrodes.


quoting me: "I presume it will be imported under license."


Many places have very different opinions on sources inside certified devices vs outside. E.g. in the US you can freely ship an americium-based smoke detector around the place. But the source extracted from it as a cool "element sample", shipping that is not okay and quite likely to get you in trouble.


Americium can’t be used to build a nuclear bomb. I think it’s entirely reasonable for a country to overreact to nuclear arms control, especially if there are escape hatches like the one used in this case to let people off the hook when deserved.


Only plutonium 239 can be used to make nukes. Assume it was plutonium 238 that this person bough. Same thing goes with uranium. Why you're allowed to buy it, because you can't turn it into a bomb.


It's never reasonable to overreact.

Regular old garden variety proportional response should suffice.


It’s sometimes reasonable. Overreacting sends a clear and irreplaceable signal that nobody can fool around or test the limits. It’s a big deal, it will always be treated as a big deal, and anyone who isn’t 1000% sure what they’re doing should be deterred from becoming involved with nuclear materials.


Maybe you shouldn't get involved with bananas /s


Right, this is the kind of gamesmanship that you can only deter through overreaction. “The nuclear materials I want aren’t a big deal - they’re similar to this other thing that’s legal, so I should be allowed to have them.” We don’t want people thinking this way, even if it’s true in some cases, because we don’t want there to be an active market in plutonium at all.


I don't see how ruining the life of a teenager for having something that is believed to be dangerous through fear mongering but isn't does anything good to society. There are so many things he could get legally to make actual bombs to kill people.


[flagged]


The amount is tokenistic and would not have caused dissent held by a school for teaching purposes. He is a good person and this is a stupid application of the law to no benefit.

Since it was imported through postal services and identified there were heaps of opportunities to avoid this.

This is the least worst outcome having had charges brought but it was an overreaction to bring charges.


He did something stupid and nobody got hurt. The law needs to be relatively forgiving in these circumstances. A culture that punishes people that we don't know harshly for mistakes is not a good society.


The law has been forgiving. No one has been punished harshly. This is a good outcome.


No, there was damage done, to Lidden. Public ridicule, shame, humiliation, the loss of his job and the possibility of having a hard time finding future employment.


Agree


The amount was so small it couldn't be used to cause harm


The article says it caused a serious hazmat situation and his neighborhood had to be evacuated.


He did not cause a serious hazmat situation. The authorities decided to evacuate a street, and are responsible for the seriousness of their over-reaction.

The packages were labelled correctly, and blocked at the border, and USPS delivered them anyway. He offered to send them back as soon as he was made aware they weren’t permitted.

The real failure here is at the border, where they were flagged and then let through, followed by the absurd over reaction of the authorities to a situation they’d enabled


USPS is United States Postal Service. They didn't deliver the package once it was received in Australia.

Or does Australia's postal service have the initials USPS too? Not being a pedant, just don't know. (Aside: UK entirely privatized their postal service which is sad given history and doesn't seem to be working out so well.)


Australia has Australia Post, as well as a number of private package delivery businesses but I don’t think any of them are called usps.


If you read more it was border control making a security theater (2months after they were aware of the situation), instead of calling appropriate government agency that are actually qualified to deal with radioactive material.

If there was a real threat why did they wait so long before evacuation, why didn't they call the appropriate government agency whose job is dealing with radioactive stuff?


The next paragraph also reads...

> However, The Guardian reported that Lidden’s solicitor, John Sutton, had criticised the Border Force for how it had handled the incident, describing it as a ‘massive over-reaction’ because the quantities of material were so small they were safe to eat. He reportedly said that he had been contacted by scientists all around the world saying that the case was ‘ridiculous’.


Looks like he lost his job though?


That's between him and his former employer. I'm only discussing the legal consequences.


You can't conveniently consider "legal consequences" in a vacuum. All sorts of court cases have measurable negative effects on the defendant outside of the courtroom. This is often intentional in a corrupt state such as Australia.




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